Rama Setu: Karunanidhi insults Shri Rama (evidence)

Karunanidhi calls Rama a drunkard. See video at

http://in.news.yahoo.com/070920/211/6l0t4.html

More VideosChennai BJP office attacked http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZajAdXG-Nbo  Ram is a big lie: http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/videopod/default.aspx  Click on Rama is a big lieClick on Karunanidhi’s daughter’s house attacked Sunil PrabhuThursday, September 20, 2007 (New Delhi) The Ram Setu controversy refuses to die down and has now become a flashpoint between the DMK and BJP.

Tamil Nadu Chief Minister and DMK leader M Karunanidhi has made it clear that he will not back down on his views on Ram.

After a high level party meeting, Karunanidhi told NDTV that ”Ram is as big a lie as Himalayas and Ganges. I merely told the fact, I did not intend to hurt anyone’s sentiments. There is no question of withdrawing my statement.”

Meanwhile, BJP leader L K Advani said Karunanidhi has hurt the sentiments of the people.

”Ram is a character from a story. I also write novels and that doesn’t mean the characters come to life,” he said.

The Congress has issued another statement on Thursday evening saying no one should say anything that will hurt the sentiments of any section of society.

Reacting to the controversy, Union Law Minister HR Bharadwaj said Ram’s existence is as true as the Himalayas or the Ganga.

Karunanidhi’s comments were in response to BJP leader L K Advani’s demand that he apologise for saying that there is no proof of Ram’s existence or that Ram Setu is manmade.

On Wednesday, Karunanidhi had hit out at Ramsevaks and reiterated that Ram is an imaginary character and there is no proof that the Ram Setu was manmade.

Controversial affidavit

Under fire from her own colleagues over the Ram Setu affidavit blunder Union Culture Minister Ambika Soni met Prime Minister Manmohan Singh earlier today.

Over a meeting that lasted nearly 45 minutes, the minister explained her side of the story to the Prime Minister. Speaking to reporters later, Soni said she was upset at the way the issue was handled.

She had earlier said that she was willing to resign over the controversial affidavit, if the Prime Minister and Sonia Gandhi asked her to. http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20070026729  Google video: Kalaignar on Setusamudram project: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8392453851262768475&q=sethusamudram&total=9&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1 SC on DMK bandh: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-400316701850558262&q=sethusamudram&total=9&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2 TN Bandh, SC holds special hearing: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7948964309312825945 News reportErode (TN), Sept 17: Charging communal forces with attempts to stop the work on the Sethusamudram project by invoking the name of Lord Ram, DMK patriarch and Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi has said Ram was an imaginary character. “Some say there was a person over 17 lakh years ago. His name was Ram. Do not touch the bridge (Ramar Sethu) constructed by him. Who is this Ram? From which engineering college he graduated? Is there any proof for this?” Karunanidhi, a known atheist, asked at a public meeting. Addressing the meeting here late last night on the occasion of DMK founder C N Annadurai’s 99th birth anniversary, he said people of Tamil Nadu had a lot of faith in religious matters and some thought that their emotions could be easily whipped up by quoting the name of Ram. If the Sethusamudram project was completed, Sri Lanka might face economic difficulties and Tamil Nadu would prosper, he said, adding some Sri Lankans might have whispered to some here that Tamil Nadu should never become prosperous. “Only to prevent the good scheme, they got hold of the name of a person who was supposed to have lived 17 lakh years ago,” he said. He claimed that the opposition to the project was part of a large conspiracy by “some jackals who wanted to destroy the Dravidian movement”. (Agencies)
Published: Monday, September 17, 2007   http://tinyurl.com/yoq6tb
http://chennaionline.com/colnews/newsitem.asp?NEWSID=%7B904E010C-7AAE-47EF-83A5-C8C7888A3468%7D&CATEGORYNAME=National  Lord Ram an imaginary character: Karunanidhi Monday, 17 September , 2007, 16:49  Erode: Charging communal forces with attempts to stop the work on the Sethusamudram project by invoking the name of Lord Ram, DMK patriarch and Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi has said Ram was an imaginary character and Ram Sethu ( Adam’s Bridge) was man-made. ‘Some say there was a person over 17 lakh years ago. His name was Ram. Do not touch the bridge (Ram Sethu) constructed by him. Who is this Ram? From which engineering college he graduated? Is there any proof for this?’ Karunanidhi, a known atheist, asked at a public meeting. Addressing the meeting here late on Sunday night on the occasion of DMK founder C N Annadurai’s 99th birth anniversary he said people of Tamil Nadu had lot of faith in religious matters and some thought that their emotions could be easily whipped up by quoting the name of Ram. If the Sethusamudram project was completed, Sri Lanka might face economic difficulties and Tamil Nadu would prosper, he said adding some Sri Lankans might have whispered to some here that Tamil Nadu should never become prosperous. ‘Only to prevent the good scheme, they got hold of the name of a person who was supposed to have lived 17 lakh years ago’, he said. He claimed that the opposition to the project was part of a large conspiracy by ‘some jackals, who wanted to destroy the Dravidian movement’. http://sify.com/news_info/news/politics/fullstory.php?id=14528452  

As per Valmiki, Rama was a drunkard: Karunanidhi

From our ANI Correspondent

Chennai, Sep 20: Refusing to withdraw his remarks on Lord Rama, Tamil Nadu Chief Minister today said that as per Ramayana’s author Valmiki, Rama was a drunkard.
“I have not said anything more than Valmiki, who authored Ramayana. Valmiki had even stated that Rama was a drunkard. Have I said so?” Karunanidhi told reporters.

Challenging Bharatiya Janata Party leader L K Advani, he asked, “Is Advani ready to discuss Ramayana with me in the same platform after going through Valmiki Ramayana fully?”

Commenting on the Sethu Samundram Project, Karunanidhi said, “I only want the project to be implemented at the earliest as it would reduce the shipping expenses and develop trade. The project has been put on hold for the past one hundred years.”

Yesterday, condemning the attack on his daughter’s house in Bangalore, the Tamil Nadu Chief Minister said that this act had proved the culture of devotees of Rama.

On Sunday, Karunanidhi had questioned the existence of Rama while addressing a rally in Erode.

He said that Rama was an imaginary character, and asked: “Was Rama a civil engineer?” which created hullabaloo.

The controversy, which was sparked off following an affidavit filed in the Supreme Court in connection with the Sethusamudram Project is unlikely to die down even though the Central Government has withdrawn it. The affidavit inter alia had stated that there was no historical evidence to establish the existence of Lord Rama or other characters in Ramayana.

The two officials of the ASI, Director Administration, Chandrashekhar, and Assistant Director of Monuments, V Bakshi were suspended following an inquiry conducted by ASI Director General A Vaish.

Hindu groups have called on the government to stop the Sethusamudram Ship Channel Project, saying it will demolish the mythical bridge linking India and Sri Lanka, believed to have been built by Lord Ram.

The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) is opposing the 560 million dollars project, which they say would destroy the Ram Sethu, a 48- kilometer chain of limestone shoals that once linked Rameswaram in Tamil Nadu to Mannar in Sri Lanka.

The project will dredge a channel in a narrow strip of sea between India and Sri Lanka, reducing distances and cutting costs for freight traffic.

Dredging for the project began in 2005 and the channel — 12 metres deep, 300 metres wide and almost 90 km long — will provide a crucial link between the Palk Bay and the Gulf of Mannar.

When the project is completed, ships sailing between India’s western and eastern coasts will no longer have to go around Sri Lanka, and are expected to save up to 36 hours of sailing time.

The project has also sparked protests by other groups including conservationists and local fishermen, who say the dredging will mean dumping sediment in deeper water further out to sea.

This and increased freight traffic will harm marine life and threaten the livelihood of thousands of fishermen in both countries.

Copyright Dailyindia.com/ANIhttp://www.dailyindia.com/show/175769.php/As-per-Valmiki-Rama-was-a-drunkard:-Karunanidhi  Monday September 24th, 2007 Get your weight in gold if you behead the chief minister of Tamil Nadu Internal politics in India is difficult to follow for outsiders. Recently, an ungodly brouhaha broke out in the southern state of Tamil Nadu, where the Chief Minister, M. Karunanidhi (who is an avowed atheist – Tamil Nadu has a strong atheist tradition, going back to the days of Periyar), made some unflattering remarks about “Lord Ram” that were not much appreciated by the believers. Lord Ram, or Rama, or Ramachandra, is one of the gazillion mythological deities and half-deities and who knows what that infest the bloated Hindu pantheon, and as such he is considered to be the seventh Avatar of Vishnu, and a divine ruler of ancient India (this is based on the crackpot fairy tales in the Ramayana, an old epic popular among Hindu fanatics and all sorts of other nutjobs of the fringe variety). Here’s what the venerable Chief Minister had to say on the subject: Charging communal forces with attempts to stop the work on the Sethusamudram project by invoking the name of Lord Ram, DMK patriarch and Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi has said Ram was an imaginary character and Ram Sethu ( Adam’s Bridge) was man-made. ‘Some say there was a person over 17 lakh years ago. His name was Ram. Do not touch the bridge (Ram Sethu) constructed by him. Who is this Ram? From which engineering college he graduated? Is there any proof for this?’ Karunanidhi, a known atheist, asked at a public meeting. The Sethusamudram project aims to link Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka more directly through the creation of a shipping canal that would pass through the island chain known as Rama’s Bridge (or Adam’s Bridge). That means digging in “holy” places, which of course has the fanatics up in arms, and there has been many attempts to stop the project. Karunanidhi’s remarks meant more gas on the fire, and the reactions were both swift and very typical:Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M. Karunanidhi Wednesday demanded speeding up of work on the Sethusamudram shipping canal project even as the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) urged the government to scrap it, saying it was hurting Hindu religious sentiments. With the issue generating more heat and leaving two people dead in Karnataka, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) asked Karunanidhi to stop his tirade against Hindu god Ram and asked if he would dare to make similar derogatory remarks against other religions. In Bangalore, police detained about 10 people and stepped up security for Karunanidhi’s elder daughter Selvi in the wake of Tuesday’s bomb attack at her residence in the wake of the chief minister’s remarks lampooning Ram. A group of 15-20 people pelted Selvi’s house in the posh J.P. Nagar area of the city with stones and glass bottles, breaking windowpanes and ornamental bulbs on the compound wall Tuesday night. Selvi and her husband Murasoli Selvan were away in Chennai then. A watchman who was slightly injured told the police that the attackers, in their 20s, shouted anti-Karunanidhi slogans and left behind pamphlets attacking him. In an apparently related incident, a Tamil Nadu State Road Transport bus was set on fire on the outskirts of Bangalore Tuesday, killing two passengers. An official release from the chief minister’s office said Wednesday that there was ‘no historical evidence’ to show that Ram lived or that he was an ‘engineering expert’ to build a bridge across the narrow sea dividing India and Sri Lanka. ‘What is wrong in what I had said?’ he asked in the statement. Karunanidhi is sticking to his guns, and rightly so: Reiterating that Ram was just a character in Ramayana and his existence cannot be accepted, Karunanidhi said whatever he had said about Ram was only from the Valmiki’s Ramayana. “I have only repeated what Valmiki had said about Ram in Ramayana. The author of Ramayana has described him as a kudikaran (drunkard). But I have not made any such comment. Let Advani study Valmiki’s Ramayana fully and come to debate about it with me,” Karunanidhi told reporters, rejecting Advani’s demand that he withdraw his comments on Ram. The DMK chief stuck to his stand that Ram was a lie. On Union Law Minister H R Bhardwaj’s comments that the existence of Ram was as true as the Himalayas and Ganga, Karunanidhi said “my remarks were as true as his”. L.K. Advani is the opposition leader from the conservative/nationalist BJP party. Karunanidhi, aside from being the Chief Minister of the state, is also the leader of the regional DMK party, currently in power in Tamil Nadu. And it wasn’t long before the vile abuse hurled at him escalated even further, once the real loons started coming out of the woodwork:Senior VHP leader and former BJP MP Ram Vilas Vedanti on Friday declared at a press conference that VHP saints of Ayodhya would weigh in gold anyone who beheaded Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi and cut out his tongue. “We will follow the commandments of our religion and nobody can stop us,” said Vedanti. He said the VHP would file a complaint and a lawsuit against Karunanidhi in Ayodhya. Vedanti’s statement has got the endorsement of the BJP and VHP units of Uttar Pradesh. Said Hridaya Narain Dixit, the spokesperson of the BJP’s Uttar Pradesh unit, “Karunanidhi has demeaned Lord Ram, and what Vedanti has said only reflects the sentiments of crores of people across the nation.” VHP organisational secretary Trilokiji said he had not heard exactly what Vedanti said, but the VHP would not oppose Vedanti on anything he said against Karunanidhi for the comments on Lord Ram. “This is because all Hindus of the country are one against Karunanidhi,” said Trilokiji.The VHP is a hardline Hindu fundamentalist party (obviously). The DMK people, for their part, didn’t react much better:Hundreds of Tamil Nadu’s ruling DMK cadres, led by a minister and Chennai mayor, yesterday attacked the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) office here after a former MP of the party declared he would weigh in gold anyone who beheaded Chief Minister M Karunanidhi. The protesters threw stones at the BJP office and destroyed cycles and scooters parked there in crowded T Nagar in the heart of the city. Ah, the beauty of religion and tribal politics… As to whether the “bridge” is man-made or not, NASA has determined that it’s an entirely natural structure. The only question of any real value in this whole mess is what the ecological impact of the project will be. Sources: “Lord Ram an imaginary character: Karunanidhi,” Sify.com, September 17, 2007; “Sethusamudram row kills two, VHP wants project axed,” Indo-Asian News Service, September 19, 2007; “Ram a lie, Ramayana says he was a drunkard: Karunanidhi,” Express News Service, September 21, 2007; “Will weigh you in gold if you behead Karunanidhi: VHP’s latest,” Express News Service, September 21, 2007; “DMK cadres attack BJP office in Chennai,” Indo-Asian News Service, September 24, 2007 http://www.badthinking.com/blog/index.php?cat=40  Karunanidhi cautions Centre on Ram Sethu issue

Saturday, 15 September , 2007, 21:57

Salem (Tamil Nadu): DMK president and Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi on Saturday cautioned the Centre against paying heed to the “religious fundamentalist forces” on the Ram Sethu issue.

The Centre should not make any attempt to give up the Sethusamudram Ship Channel Project, bowing to pressure from such forces, Karunanidhi told reporters at Yercadu near Salem.

Quoting former Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, he said Ramayana was a story based on the fight between Aryan and Dravidian races.

“Lord Rama is an imaginary character and Ram Sethu is not a man-made bridge. The Centre should not do anything to disturb the Sethusamudram project,” he said.

Asked whether he had differences with the Centre on the project, he said “our differences are only with the religious fundamentalist forces and not with the Centre”.

Asked about the fresh affidavit filed by the Centre in the Supreme Court on the Ram Sethu issue, he said there was nothing wrong if the fresh one was filed to abide by the directions of the court.

“It only shows that the government is not adamant on the issue. However, giving up the project on some pretext is not acceptable to us,” he said.

Karunanidhi declined to comment on the Left parties opinion that the Centre should not have mentioned about Lord Ram in the first affidavit.

On the reports that the AIADMK was coming closer to the BJP, he said it was not surprising at all.

Asked about the reports that a snap poll to the Lok Sabha was imminent, Karunanidhi said “some say like that. I do not know”.

He said his party wanted the DMK-led Democratic Progressive Alliance in Tamil Nadu to be intact.

There were attempts to break the alliance but they would not succeed, he said.

On his remarks on Friday that he desired to retire, he said one should note that he had spoken about this at a conference of retired government employees.

“I only appreciated their enthusiasm and said I too would get such enthusiasm once I retire. There is nothing more to it,” he said.

Asked whether he had any plans to have a Deputy Chief Minister, he replied in the negative.

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14527700&vsv=SHGTpicslot

Where is proof Ram built bridge, asks Karunanidhi

Express news service

Posted online: Monday, September 17, 2007 at 0000 hrs IST

Chennai, September 16
Though the Centre has decided to withdraw its controversial affidavits on the existence of Ram, expressing regret for hurting religious sentiments, the ruling DMK in Tamil Nadu has come down hard on “communal forces” for using the “myth” of Ram Sethu to stall the Sethusamudram project.

Warning the Centre against succumbing to communal forces, Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi, at a function in Erode on Saturday night, said: “Who is this Raman (as Lord Ram is referred to in Tamil)? In which engineering college did he study and become a civil engineer? When did he build this so-called bridge? Is there any evidence for this?”

“The withdrawal of the affidavits does not mean that the project is being withdrawn,” Karunanidhi told reporters at Yercaud near Salem. “If it amounts to the project itself being shelved, then the DMK, which adheres to scientific, rational and progressive ideals, will not accept it.”

On whether there was any difference of opinion between the DMK and Centre on the issue, he retorted: “The conflict is between us and communal elements. It is between us and dominant forces that are using superstitions of the people to stall the project and achieve their ends. It is not a conflict between us and the Union Government. Our stand is that the Centre should not succumb to these communal elements.”

At Erode, Karunanidhi said: “The latest attempt to stall the Sethusamudram project is by a group of jackals, conspirators and dangerous elements. Their objective is to subvert a major project that would usher in development in the southern parts of our state.”

In a resolution which he read out at the function, Karunanidhi warned the Government against giving up the project in the name of Ram Sethu. The Ramayana, he said, was only “a piece of fiction that allegorically represented the conflict between Aryans and Dravidians”.

The Tamil Nadu CM blamed “communal elements” and even Sri Lanka for stalling the project, “a long-cherished dream of Tamils”. “The opposition to the Sethusamudram project was an attempt to destroy the Dravidian movement,” he said. The Centre, he advised, should not be intimidated by threats from religious elements and delay a project that the Prime Minister and Congress chief Sonia Gandhi had agreed to implement.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/217566.html

Karunanidhi condemns ‘Ram Bhaktas’ for torching bus

UNI Sept. 19, 2007

Chennai: Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi on Wednesday condemned ”Ram Bhaktas” for burning alive two people, by torching a Tamil Nadu State Corporation bus and launching a violent attack at his daughter’s house in Bangalore last night over the ”Ramsethu” issue.

Talking to newspersons here, the DMK leader said, ”by resorting to such violent attacks, the Ram Bhaktas have exposed their culture and true colour.” Condemning the incident, Karunanidhi expressed his deep condolences to the bereaved families.

Karunanidhi, whose remarks about Lord Ram, provoked the activists of some Hindu organisations to resort to the violent acts, stood by his remarks, while answering a question.

On the charge by the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Rashtriya Swayam Sevak (RSS) that his remarks against Lord Ram were responsible for the violent incident, the Dravidian patriarch said that he stood by his remarks and reiterated that there was no historical evidence to show that Lord Ram had built the ”Ramsethu.” ”History had no evidence to show that there was a person called Lord Ram lived and he was an Engineer, competent enough to build a bridge. I had made this remarks and what is wrong in this,” he retorted.

Karunanidhi said saint ”Valmiki, in his Ramayana, had said more than what we had said about Ram and what are they (BJP and Hindu organisations) have to say for this.”

http://tinyurl.com/yr2hrn

Karunanidhi sticks to stand on Lord Ram issue

Chennai, Sept. 20 (PTI): Sticking to his stand that no one called Lord Ram had existed, DMK Chief and Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi on Wednesday said there was no historic proof for it.

He told a satellite television channel here yesterday that there was also no proof of Lord Ram having constructed a bridge and being an expert in engineering.

“You tell me whether Rama lived. I had only stated that there was no person in the name of Lord Ram. What is wrong in that?,” he asked

He said Valmiki, who authored the Ramayana, had written many things about Lord Ram, which he had not said. “What do the supporters of Ram have to say on this?”

Condoling the death of two persons in a bus burning incident in the Tamil Nadu-Karnataka border, he said ‘the culprits have shown that this is the culture of the Ram Bakthas’.

He said he had faith that the Karnataka government would do what was needed as it was duty bound to take action against the culprits.

Referring to the attack his daughter Selvi’s house at Bangalore on Tuesday night, He said ‘I treat these things like a speck of dust. I only welcome this kind of opposition”.

He said those who opposed the Sethu Samuthram project wanted to find minor reasons to stall the project.

The Chief Minister said his government would definitely prevail upon the Centre to continue the project. “We have convened an all party meeting here on Sept.24 just for this purpose’, he added.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/004200709200321.htm

Valmiki said Ram was a drunkard: Karunanidhi
Friday September 21 2007 00:00 IST

T Muruganandam

CHENNAI: Claiming that in the Ramayana Valmiki had described Rama as a drunkard, Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi on Thursday challenged BJP leader L K Advani to a debate on Rama and the Ramayana.
Reiterating that Rama was just a character in the Ramayana, Karunanidhi said: “I have only repeated what Valmiki had said. The author of Ramayana described Rama as a kudikaran (drunkard). But I have not made any such comment.”
“Let Advani study Valmiki Ramayana* fully and come to debate about it with me,” Karunanidhi told reporters, virtually rejecting Advani’s demand that he withdraw his statement.
However, a transcript of his media interaction faxed to newspaper offices later, dropped the word kudikaran. According to it, Karunanidhi had stated that Rama had the habit of somapanam (consuming a beverage which the gods used to have).
Pointing out that the Constitution did not bar anyone from speaking on Rama, he said, “I have not hurt anyone by my remarks. Expressing the views which are already in writing cannot be termed as wounding the sentiments of somebody else.”
But when asked whether he would question the existence of Jesus Christ or Prophet Mohammed, he merely referred to the comments of former Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru on Rajaji’s Ramayana.

http://tinyurl.com/2yrg6d

Ram a lie, Ramayana says he was a drunkard: Karunanidhi

Express news service

Posted online: Friday, September 21, 2007 at 0000 hrs IST

CHENNAI, SEPTEMBER 20
Claiming that Valmiki had described Ram as a drunkard in Ramayana, Tamil Nadu Chief Minister and DMK President M Karunanidhi on Thursday challenged BJP leader LK Advani to a debate on Ram and Ramayana.

Reiterating that Ram was just a character in Ramayana and his existence cannot be accepted, Karunanidhi said whatever he had said about Ram was only from the Valmiki’s Ramayana. “I have only repeated what Valmiki had said about Ram in Ramayana. The author of Ramayana has described him as a kudikaran (drunkard). But I have not made any such comment. Let Advani study Valmiki’s Ramayana fully and come to debate about it with me,” Karunanidhi told reporters, rejecting Advani’s demand that he withdraw his comments on Ram.

The DMK chief stuck to his stand that Ram was a lie. On Union Law Minister H R Bhardwaj’s comments that the existence of Ram was as true as the Himalayas and Ganga, Karunanidhi said “my remarks were as true as his”.

However, a transcript of his media interaction faxed to newspaper offices later in the afternoon, dropped the word “kudikaran” . According to the fax version, Karunanidhi had stated that Ram used to drink a kind of liquor called somapanam.

Pointing out that the Constitution did not bar anyone from speaking on Ram, he said: “I have not hurt anyone by my remarks. Expressing the views which are already in writing cannot be termed as wounding the sentiments of somebody else. The DMK has never done anything which would hurt the sentiments of either the Hindus or anybody else and the party would not do so in the future.”

‘No problem with alignment’

Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M Karunanidhi indicated that he had no objection to an alternative alignment as long as the project is completed. “We do not bother about the alignment. What we need is speedy implementation of the Sethusamudram project,” Karunanidhi told reporters. “Right from the day one, the DMK never demanded that the project should be completed by demolishing the Ram Sethu, and we stick to that stand,” he said.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/219361.html

Karunanidhi rejects demand for withdrawal of remarks

Chennai, Sept. 20 (PTI): DMK patriarch M Karunanidhi who is under attack from the BJP and Sangh Parivar outfits for his remarks against Lord Ram and Ram Sethu, today rejected the demand for withdrawal of his remarks.

“I have not said anything more than Valmiki, who authored Ramayana. Valmiki had even stated that Ram was a drunkard. Have I said so?” he asked while replying to questions from media at the DMK headquarters here.

He challenged BJP leader L K Advani, who asked for the withdrawal of his remarks against Lord Ram, to discuss Ramayana with him in the same platform.

“Is Advani ready to discuss Ramayana with me in the same platform after going through Valmiki Ramayana fully?” he asked.

Replying to Advani’s question whether UPA government was also a part of a conspiracy to stall the Sethusamudram project, he said he only cautioned the government against falling a prey to “conspiracy”.

Asked whether he would accept implementing the project without disturbing Ram Sethu, he said the intention of the project was not to destroy the Ram Sethu.

“I only want the project to be implemented at the earliest as it would reduce the shipping expenses and develop trade. The project has been put on hold for the past one hundred years”, he said.

Lawyer files complaint in court against Karunanidhi

Alleging that recent remarks by Karunanidhi on Lord Ram had hurt his religious feelings, a lawyer has filed a complaint in a Chennai court seeking a direction to the police to investigate the matter and file a report.

Chief Metropolitan Magistrate S Rajagopalan posted the complaint to September 27 when it would be taken up for further proceedings.

The complainant R K Venkatesh, an advocate in the Madras High Court, has contended that the remarks by Karunanidhi questioning Lord Ram’s existence had hurt his religious feelings.

He also said he had filed a complaint with state Director General of Police P Rajendran but “there was no action”. Hence, the complaint to the court.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/000200709201823.htm

Economic Times, 23 Sept. 2007

Karunanidhi jumps into Ramlila
23 Sep, 2007, 0228 hrs IST, TNN

The political heat over the Ram Sethu controversy shot up with the DMK rejecting the BJP’s appeal to withdraw its offensive remarks on Lord Ram.
Tamil Nadu chief minister M Karunanidhi rejected it and said, “I have not said anything more than Valmiki, who authored Ramayana. Valmiki had even stated that Ram was a drunkard. Have I said so.”
He challenged Mr Advani to share a platform with him for a debate on Ramayana. “Is Mr Advani ready to discuss Ramayana with me on the same platform after going through Valmiki Ramayana fully,” the DMK chief asked.
He had earlier said that Ram did not exist, a statement which was fiercely objected by the BJP’s leadership.

http://tinyurl.com/22z6hk

http://tinyurl.com/26jk2g

Source: Murasoli online archives, September 21, 2007

See also:

https://kalyan97.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/993/ Rama Setu: Rama is Tamil hero ! (Evidences for the veneration of Rama in Tamilnadu from ancient times)

https://kalyan97.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/886/ Rama Setu: hurting by abusing Shri Rama

HC moved against CM’s remarks

Chennai, Sept 18: A petition seeking the removal of M Karunanidhi from the Chief Ministership of Tamil Nadu for his remarks against Lord Ram was filed in the Madras High Court today for allegedly hurting the religious sentiments of Hindus.

The quo warranto petition has been filed by Ramathangarasu, President of Tamil Nadu Bharathiya Jana Shakthi.

According to Ramathangarasu, he came to know about Karunanidhi’s speech from newspaper reports. Karunanidhi had challenged the very existence of Lord Rama and criticized him as an ordinary citizen, much inferior to an engineer. He had deliberately made the declaration in order to tarnish the image of Lord Rama. His speech directly affected the feelings and sentiments of a majority of Hindus, Ramathangarasu said.

Being the Chief Minister, Karunanidhi ought not to have criticized Lord Ram, affecting the sentiments of Hindus, thereby committing breach of peace. Karunanidhi who pledged to uphold the Constitution, had violated his oath, he said.

The petitioner also sought to restrain Karunanidhi from signing any record as Chief Minister, pending disposal of his petition.

Karunanidhi had stated at a public meeting at Erode that Ram was an imaginary character and Ram Sethu was not man- made. He had said “some say there was a person over 17 lakh years ago. Do not touch the bridge (Ram Sethu) constructed by him. Who is this Ram? From which engineering college did he graduate? Is there any proof for this?” (Agencies)

Published: Tuesday, September 18, 2007

http://tinyurl.com/2qgdy4

Source: Dinakaran epaper archives, Date 20 Sept. 2007

Source: Dinakaran, epaper, page 9

Source: Dinakaran, epaper, 19 Sept. 2007

5 Responses to Rama Setu: Karunanidhi insults Shri Rama (evidence)

  1. P.M. Prabhu says:

    Just as Bal thakare was was debarred from voting for 6 years Karunanidhi should be dismissed and prevented from holding public posts and voting.His party should be fined for the Bandh as SS & BJP were fined.Further all DK, DMK etc. who spread hatred against Brahmins and insult Hindu Gods should be banned.

  2. ramans says:

    once dushtanidhi is punished e.g debared from voting , holding any posts and siesed assets then all hindus must piss, spit, shit , throw cough , stool etc on dushtanidhi so much that he is burried under it and dies. i think there are so many Lord Rama’s devotee’s who can do this and achive this taget. If it can be done now it will be the best

  3. Vamanan says:

    The DK and DMK have in the past scandalised Hindus by insulting Rama as part of their political agenda. They not only got scot free in the past but managed to reap dividends for their sins. IN 2007 Karunanidhi tried the trick again. Now he finds that the worm turns. Even this frightens him. The Hindu need not become an extremist…at let him have some self-respect!

  4. Lord Rama: Fact or Fiction
    By Stephen Knapp

    As of late, in the year 2007, the idea of whether Lord Rama exists or not has been called into question, by no less than some of the politicians in India. So it is a wonder how such persons can be accepted as leaders of the people of India who should be concerned with preserving and protecting the culture of the country. Obviously, they are neither concerned nor aware of the depths of information that can be found in support of the traditions for which India is especially known. Or, they are really attempting to dismantle or destroy the authority of the timeless nature of the civilization of the country.

    In regard to Lord Rama, the point about ancient history is that the farther you go back in time, the fewer references you can use that actually refer to the incident in history. There may be many commentaries, but few quotations to the actual events.

    However, when it comes to the Ramayana and the history of Lord Rama, there have been numerous authors who have accepted the Ramayana as a history of ancient events. For example, the first Governor General of India, Sri Rajaji, wrote on the Ramayana and called it a history, as also did the English Indologist Sir William Jones. Various other western authors have made a study of the culture and history of the Ramayana, such as Philip Lutgendorf in his book Rama’s Story in Shiva’s City, California University; Joe Burkhalter Flueckiger and Laurie Sears in The Boundaries of Traditional Ramayana and Mahabharata Performances in South and Southeast Asia, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor; W. L. Smith on Ramayan Traditions in Eastern India, University of Stockholm, and others.

    There are also numerous places that are indicated as the locations where various events happened in reference to the pastimes of Lord Rama and Sita. Thus, they are accepted as historical sites. I have personally visited many of these places, such as Ramesvaram, Nasik, Hampi, and others where there are particular locations and sites that are related to the events that took place in the life and adventures of Lord Rama. Many people accept these sites as the locations for the events described in the Ramayana. So how can this be unless there are not some reality behind it?

    However, why is there not more archaeological evidence that points towards Rama’s existence? Because such an effort has not been made in India and systematic excavations have never been carried out, says historian Nandita Krishnan. She says that to doubt the existence of Rama is to doubt all literature. There is little archaeological or epigraphic evidence for either Jesus Christ or Prophet Mohammed, who are known only from the Bible and Koran respectively. Does it mean they did not exist? If Rama performs miracles such as liberating Ahalya, the Biblical story of Jesus walking on water or the Koranic tale of Mohammed flying to heaven on a horse are equally miraculous. Such stories reinforce divinity.

    She also describes in summary what areas the events of Lord Rama’s life took place. She explains: “The Ramayana is geographically very correct. Every site on Rama’s route is still identifiable and has continuing traditions or temples to commemorate Rama’s visit. Around 1000 BC or earlier, no writer had the means to travel around the country inventing a story, fitting it into local folklore and building temples for greater credibility.

    “In 1975 the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) unearthed fourteen pillar bases of kasauti stone with Hindu motifs near the mosque at Ayodhya; reports of the excavations are available with the ASI. Rama was born in Ayodhya and married in Mithila, now in Nepal. Not far from Mithila is Sitamarhi, where Sita was found in a furrow, still revered as the Janaki kund constructed by her father Janaka. Rama and Sita left Mithila for Ayodhya via Lumbini. In 249 BC, Ashoka erected a pillar in Lumbini with an inscription referring to the visits by both Rama and Buddha to Lumbini. Ashoka was much nearer in time to Rama and would be well aware of his facts.

    “Rama, Lakshmana and Sita left Ayodhya and went to Sringaverapura – modern Sringverpur in Uttar Pradesh – where they crossed the River Ganga. They lived on Chitrakoot hill where Bharata and Shatrughna met them and the brothers performed the last rites for their father. Thereafter, the three wandered through Dandakaranya in Central India, described as a land of Rakshasas, obviously tribes inimical to the brothers’ habitation of their land. Tribals are still found in these forests. The trio reached Nasik, on the River Godavari, which throbs with sites and events of Rama’s sojourn, such as Tapovan where they lived, Ramkund where Rama and Sita used to bathe, Lakshmankund, Lakshmana’s bathing area, and several caves in the area associated with their lives in the forest.

    “Rama then moved to Panchavati near Bhadrachalam (AP), where Ravana abducted Sita. The dying Jatayu told them of the abduction, so they left in search of Sita. Kishkinda, near Hampi, where Rama first met Sugriva and Hanuman, is a major Ramayana site, where every rock and river is associated with Rama. Anjanadri, near Hospet, was the birthplace of Hanuman (Anjaneya); Sugriva lived in Rishyamukha on the banks of the Pampa (Tungabhadra); Sabari probably also lived in a hermitage there. Rama and the Vanara army left Kishkinda to reach Rameshwaram, where the Vanaras built a bridge to Lanka from Dhanushkodi on Rameshwaram Island to Talaimannar in Sri Lanka. While parts of the bridge – known as Adam’s Bridge – are still visible, NASA’s satellite has photographed an underwater man-made bridge of shoals in the Palk Straits, connecting Dhanushkodi and Talaimannar. On his return from Sri Lanka, Rama worshiped Shiva at Rameshwaram, where Sita prepared a Linga out of sand. It is still one of the most sacred sites of Hinduism.

    “Sri Lanka also has relics of the Ramayana. There are several caves, such as Ravana Ella Falls, where Ravana is believed to have hidden Sita to prevent Rama from finding her. The Sitai Amman Temple at Numara Eliya is situated near the ashokavana where Ravana once kept her prisoner.”

    In describing the places in Sri Lanka that are associated with Lord Rama and the Ramayana, “Sri Lankan folklore and religious scholars have identified more than 30 places on the island which are associated with the Ramayana. And interestingly enough, people in these places have a strong sense of history and lore, and a strong sense of possession. They are proud of their association with the Hindu epic,” explained S. Kalaiselvan, director general Sri Lanka Tourism Development Authority. This is the case, even though 90 percent of the people in the Ramayana-related areas are Sinhalese Buddhists.

    According to the Ramayana, Ravana brought Sita to Sri Lanka by a vehicle called ‘Pushpaka Vimanam’ by the Hindus and ‘Dandu Monara Yanthraya’ by the
    Sinhalese Buddhists. According to mythology, this vehicle landed at Werangatota, about 10 km from Mahiyangana, east of the hill station of Nuwara Eliya, in central Sri Lanka. Sita was then taken to Goorulupota, now known as Sitakotuwa, where Ravana’s wife, Mandodari, lived. Seetakotuwa is about 10 km from Mahiyangana on the road to Kandy. Sita was housed in a cave at Sita Eliya, on the Colombo-Nuwara Eliya road. There is a temple for her there. She is believed to have bathed in the mountain stream flowing beside the temple.

    North of Nuwara Eliya, in Matale district, is Yudhaganapitiya, where the Rama-Ravana battle took place. According to a Sinhalese legend, Dunuwila is the place from where Rama shot the ‘Bramshira’ arrow that killed Ravana. The Sri Lankan king was chalking out his battle plans in a place called Lakgala when the killer arrow struck him. Lakgala is a rock from the top of which Ravana could see north Sri Lanka clearly. It served as a watchtower following the expectation that Rama would invade the island to rescue his consort. Ravana’s body was placed on the rock at Yahangala for his subjects to pay their last respects. Since Ravana was a Brahmin, it was considered a sin to kill him, even in battle. To wash off the sin, Rama performed puja at the Munneswaram temple in Chilaw, 80 km north of Colombo. At Manaweri, north of Chilaw, there is a temple gifted by Rama.

    According to another legend from the southern part of Sri Lanka, Sita was actually detained in the mountainous forest area of Rumassala near Galle. When she fell ill, Hanuman wanted to bring some medicinal plants from the Dronagiri mountain in the Himalayan chain to cure her. Since he could not find the plants, he brought the whole mountain and dropped it at Unawatuna, which is near the present Galle harbour. Unawatuna means ‘here it fell’. Indeed, the area is known for its medicinal plants.

    At Ramboda, in the central highlands, known for its massive waterfalls, a temple for Hanuman has now sprung up as the belief is that he had visited Sita who was incarcerated there. Legend has it that the Koneswaram temple, in the eastern district of Trincomalee, was gifted by Lord Shiva to Ravana, as he was an ardent devotee. In the famous Buddha Vihara at Kelani, near Colombo, there is a representation of Rama handing over captured Sri Lanka to Ravana’s brother, Vibheeshana, who sided with him in his conflict with Ravana.

    Nandita Krishnan continues to explain the importance of these holy sites, “All the places visited by Rama still retain memories of his visit, as if it happened yesterday. Time, in India, is relative. Some places have commemorative temples; others commemorate the visit in local folklore. But all agree that Rama was going from or to Ayodhya. Why doubt connections when literature, archaeology and local tradition meet? Why doubt the connection between Adam’s Bridge and Rama, when nobody else in Indian history has claimed its construction? Why doubt that Rama traveled through Dandakaranya or Kishkinda, where local non-Vedic tribes still narrate tales of Rama? Why doubt that he was born in and ruled over Ayodhya?

    “Rama’s memory lives on because of his extraordinary life and his reign, which was obviously a period of great peace and prosperity, making Ramarajya a reference point. People only remember the very good or the very bad. Leftist historians have chosen to rubbish archaeology, literature and local tradition.”

    Nandita Krishnan also adds that “Nobody believed that Homer’s Iliad was a true story till Troy was discovered after extensive archaeology. Unfortunately, the sites of the Ramayana and Mahabharata have now been built over many times and it may never be possible to excavate extensively either at Ayodhya or Mathura.”

    To further verify this aspect of the history of Lord Rama, Pushkar Bhatnagar concludes that geographical evidence for the epics is abundant. There still exist many places like Rameshwaram, Kishkindha, Kurukshetra, Hastinapura, etc. where the visits of Rama and Krishna are a basic part of local folklore.

    Lack of archaeological evidence is no excuse for denying the existence of history, sums up Bhatnagar. “If the buildings of that time over 7000 years ago do not exist today, can we just infer that civilizations and personalities of that time also did not exist?”

    In literature, we have the Ramayana and other texts such as the Puranas which also relate and verify the history and existence of Lord Rama. People from many other regions of the world have also accepted the Ramayana as worthy of attention, devotion, and historical evidence. For example, we can see the affects of the Ramayana tradition in many countries who have adapted their own form of the Ramayana and worship of Lord Rama, especially in the countries of Southeast Asia. These include Burma (Myanmar), Cambodia (Capuchia), Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam. Other areas can also be found where the influence of the history of Lord Rama is in affect, such as the continent of Africa was once known as Kushadvipa for having been ruled by Kush, one of Lord Rama’s sons.

    The other fact is that many millions of people feel the reciprocation from Lord Rama whenever they engage in devotion to Him, or read the Ramayana, or hear the Ramayana in a katha, or watch a television show or movie about Him, or go to one of the temples dedicated to Him. This cannot be denied or neglected. Just because we have insensitive politicians who cannot perceive this reciprocation does not mean that we all are so spiritually undeveloped. This dedication and reciprocation has spread throughout the world.

    There have also been astronomers who have identified the approximate time of the Ramayana by the descriptions of the stars and constellations as given in the Ramayana, or even in the Bhagavata Purana and other texts. Pushkar Bhatnagar, author of the book Dating the Era of Lord Rama, claims that there is a significant amount of information available to prove that Rama was a historical personality. He says, “Valmiki, who wrote the Ramayana, was a contemporary of Rama. While narrating the events of the epic, he has mentioned the position of the planets at several places.” He explains that by using recent planetary software, it has been possible to verify that these planetary positions actually took place precisely as specified in the Ramayana. These were not just stray events, but the entire sequence of the planetary positions as described by Valmiki at various stages of Rama’s life can be verified today as having taken place.

    Bhatnagar goes on to explain: “This information is significant, since these configurations do not repeat for lakhs of years and cannot be manipulated or imagined so accurately, without the help of sophisticated software. The inference that one can draw is that someone was present there to witness the actual happening of these configurations, which got recorded in the story of Rama.”

    Bhatnagar provides the following quote from the Ramayana: “Rama was born on the Navami tithi of Shukla Paksha of Chaitra masa (9th day of the increasing phase of the moon in the lunar month of Chaitra). At that time, the nakshatra was Punarvasu, and Sun, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter and Venus were in Aries, Capricorn, Libra, Cancer and Pisces respectively. Lagna was Cancer and Jupiter & Moon were shining together. — Ramayana 1.18.8,9

    The conditions can be summarized as follows, according to Bhatnagar:
    1. Sun in Aries
    2. Saturn in Libra
    3. Jupiter in Cancer
    4. Venus in Pisces
    5. Mars in Capricorn
    6. Lunar month of Chaitra
    7. 9th day after New Moon (Navami Tithi, Shukla Paksh)
    8. Moon near Punarvasu Nakshatra (Pollux star in Gemini constellation)
    9. Cancer as Lagna (Cancer constellation rising in the east)
    10. Jupiter above the horizon

    According to the Planetarium software, it provides the following date: Sri Rama Navami – 10th January 5114 BCE – Birth Day of Rama, Observation at 12.30 p.m.

    Bhatnagar continues: “By using a powerful planetarium software, I found that the planetary positions mentioned in Ramayana for the date of birth of Lord Ram had occurred in the sky at around 12.30 p.m. of 10th January 5114 BC. It was the ninth day of the Shukla Paksh of Chaitra month too. Moving forward, after 25 years of the birth of Lord Ram, the position of planets in the sky tallies with their description in Ramayana. Again, on the amavasya (new moon) of the 10th month of the 13th year of exile the solar eclipse had indeed occurred and the particular arrangement of planets in the sky was visible. ( Date comes to 7th October, 5077 BC). Even the occurrence of subsequent two eclipses also tally with the respective description in Valmiki Ramayana. (Date of Hanuman’s meeting Sita at Lanka was 12th September, 5076 BC). In this manner the entire sequence of the planetary positions gets verified and all the dates can be precisely determined.”

    Although this provides verification of the existence for Lord Rama according to calculations as given in the Ramayana, some people feel the timing for the day and year of His birth may be different than what the planetarium software indicates. For example, Vedic astrologer Nartaka Gopala devi dasi points out that “Regarding the calculation of Lord Rama’s birth as 10th of January 5114 BCE – Birth Day of Rama, Observation at 12.30 PM, there are 2 reasons why this cannot be correct. His rising sign, or lagna, is Cancer. That places Aries in the tenth house, and He has the Sun in Aries. The placement of the Sun in any birth chart will tell the time of day of the birth. Sun in the tenth house means birth at noontime (approx. 11 AM to 2 PM). There are no exceptions to this. (Lord Krishna appeared at midnight, the Sun is in Leo, 4th house for Taurus rising. Birth at 6 PM means 7th house Sun. Birth at sunrise means 1st house Sun.) Also, in Lord Rama’s chart the Sun is in Aries, and the dates for Sun in Aries are fixed, which means the same each year on April 14th to May 13th. So how did the January 10 date come up? These two Jyotish corrections are common sense that any Vedic astrologer would immediately see.” So there may be a difference in what the planetarium software suggests. This also corroborates why we who follow the Vedic calendar celebrate Lord Rama’s appearance in April-May each year. So the traditional date appears accurate.

    Furthermore, some people feel that the appearance of Lord Rama took place many thousands or even millions of years earlier, in the Treta-yuga. For example, the Bhagavata Purana clearly states that Lord Rama became king during Treta yuga (Bhag. 9.10.51). We have been in Kali-yuga for 5000 years. Before this was Dvapara-yuga which lasts 864,000 years. Before that was Treta-yuga, which lasts over 1,200,000 years. Thus, according to this, the existence of Lord Rama had to have been many thousands of years ago. And if Lord Rama appeared in one of the previous Treta-yugas, it would certainly indicate that Lord Rama appeared several million years ago. And this is exactly what is corroborated in the Vayu Purana.

    In the Vayu Purana (70.47-48) [published by Motilal Banarsidass] there is a description of the length of Ravana’s life. It explains that when Ravana’s merit of penance began to decline, he met Lord Rama, the son of Dasarath, in a battle wherein Ravana and his followers were killed in the 24th Treta-yuga. The Roman transliteration of the verse is:

    tretayuge chaturvinshe ravanastapasah kshayat
    ramam dasharathim prapya saganah kshayamiyavan

    The same Ramayana that gives the planetary descriptions (on which the above calculation is based) also tells that Lord Rama came in Treta-yuga. The Matsya Purana (47/240,243-246) is another source that also gives more detail of various avataras and says Bhagawan Rama appeared at the end of the 24th Treta-yuga.

    There are 1000 Treta-yugas in one day of Brahma, and it is calculated that we are presently in the 28th cycle of the four yugas (called divya-yugas, which is a cycle of the four yugas, Satya-yuga, Treta-yuga, Dvapara-yuga, and then Kali-yuga) of Vaivasvata Manu, who is the seventh Manu in the series of 14 Manu rulers who exist in one kalpa or day of Brahma. Each Manu is considered to live for 71 such divya-yuga cycles. So, without getting too complicated about things, from the 24th Treta-yuga to the present age of this 28th cycle of Kali-yuga, there is obviously a difference of millions of years when Lord Rama manifested here on earth. This gives the period of Lord Rama approximately 18 million years ago. Furthermore, the planetary positions mentioned in the Ramayana would also have occurred multiple times in history prior to the calculated date. Of course, few people may believe this unless they are already familiar with the vast lengths of time that the Vedic literature deals with.

    Nonetheless, maybe there is further reason why we should accept that Lord Rama appeared millions of years ago. In the Valmiki Ramayana, Sundara-Kanda (or Book 5), Chapter 4, verse 27, [Gita Press, Gorakhpur, India] it explains that when Hanuman first approached Ravana’s palace, he saw the doorways surrounded by horses and chariots, palanquins and aerial cars, beautiful horses and elephants, nay, with four-tusked elephants decked with jewels resembling masses of white clouds.

    Elsewhere in the Valmiki Ramayana, Sundara-Kanda (or Book 5), Chapter 27, verses12, an ogress named Trijata has a dream of Lord Rama, which she describes to the other demoniac ogresses upon awakening. In that dream she sees Rama, scion of Raghu, united again with Sita. Sri Rama was mounted on a huge elephant, closely resembling a hill, with four tusks.

    The question is how could there be a mention of the elephants with four tusks unless Valmiki and the people of his era were familiar with such creatures? A quick search on the Encarta Encyclopedia will let us know that these four-tusked elephants were known as Mastodontoidea, which are said to have evolved around 38 million years ago and became extinct about 15 million years ago when the shaggy and two tusked Mastodons increased in population. Now there’s something to think about, eh? So this would mean that the specific planetary configuration that is described in the Ramayana, and is verified by Pushkar Bhatnagar, may have indeed happened, but at a time millions of years prior to merely 10,000 years ago.

    In this way, as we go through the evidence, we can see how Lord Rama was an actual historic personality, as described in the Ramayana and in other Puranic texts. Nonetheless, there will always be those for whom no matter what you present for verification, it will not be enough. Some just won’t believe it. Some will, some won’t, so what, let’s move on. But many in the world already accept the authority of the Ramayana and other Vedic texts for the verification of the existence of Lord Rama.

    Jaya Sri Rama!

    You can also read the summarized version of the Ramayana as found here on my website.

    [Available at: http://www.stephen-knapp.com]

  5. Vinay says:

    Karuna Nidhi Is Kuruda Nidhi…….. Blind Idiot…….

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